I have been using Nextcloud (specifically Nextcloud VM) for a couple of years now, and it worked great for some time. I had switched from Nextcloudpi, as I wanted something more robust for my storage needs.
The problems started this past weekend, where I realized that I wasn’t running the latest version. I took a look at what I was running, and saw that there was a recent, highly concerning CVE for Nextcloud. So I started the patching process.
What is strange to me, is that the Nextcloud VM did not auto-update as it should. Even further concerning is that I received no notification that I was stuck on a version that was out of date. So I manually connected via SSH, but it seems that the update was stuck due to dependencies. In fact, despite updating Nextcloud, I was stuck on an old version of Ubuntu (I thought the Nextcloud VM would be keeping me up to date here).
I went to the documentation for Hansson IT, and it basically just kept saying to run the updater script. So I did what anyone would do, and went to the forums. There are some people that offer a lot of support, though it seems like Hansson IT is more out to make money than to actually solve people’s problems- take a look at the store here. He is charging €60 per 30 minutes, €50 to upgrade to a different version, and a staggering €150 to upgrade php versions. Hansson IT is condescending on the forums, and uses it as a platform for sales!
I ended up contacting them after logging into my account, where it shows that there are unlimited downloads. My idea was to start from scratch in a test environment and see if I could get it running again. I was met with the same attitude right away, that no, they can’t help, unless I spend more money. I just wanted a copy of the old download (I think it was auto-deleted from my Downloads folder to save space). To me, it seems like false advertising, where they are saying I get unlimited downloads. I guess what they were trying to explain is that I could download it unlimited times in the days that it was available. So maybe it is time to purchase a new one and just spam the downloads for 10 days :)?
I digress, I ended up talking to Kafit AB, who owns Hansson IT, and was given the same answer by Johan Bernhardsson. The result was everyone just thinking that each other was silly- them thinking I was silly for even asking such a thing, me thinking it was silly that they didn’t want to help. This Johan Bernhardsson works for something known as Redpill Linpro…. who claims to support open source, but if this interaction is any indication, wants to monetize open source.
So this brings us to the problem of why people don’t adopt open source projects. Money acts as a gatekeeper, and the ongoing support costs could easily sink a small business. If you want mass adoption of a product, there cannot be a monetary requirement that acts as a gatekeeper. NextCloudPi does a good job as an entry level solution, though I had some issues with breaking changes and data loss when I used it. It could feasibly be better supported now. Nextcloud VM would be exactly the kind of thing small/medium businesses would use, because the virtualization would allow other software to run concurrently.
Alas, the developer of Nextcloud VM has changed a lot, maybe he feels he “wasted” time on Owncloud. It seems that developer back then compared about the community, and problem solving with end users. It seems the whole Owncloud to Nextcloud migration was due to the implications of the commercial process, though that’s up for dispute.
When a developer is only out to enrich themselves, as opposed to supporting the underlying community, you run into problems. This is what holds back some of the best open source projects, and gives others pause to join in commits, or in seeing whether it could meet their needs.
It would be nice if you actually was telling the truth.
What truth is missing?
Let’s break it down once and for all:
1. “What is strange to me, is that the Nextcloud VM did not auto-update as it should”: https://github.com/nextcloud/vm/blob/master/menu/server_configuration.sh#L46 Yes, you can choose to do automatic updates in the VM. It will give you automatic *minor* upgrades. Why minor you might think? Well, because major upgrades can break your Nextcloud, and we prefer stability over bleeding edge.
2. “I received no notification that I was stuck on a version that was out of date.”: You did: https://github.com/nextcloud/vm/blob/master/static/updatenotification.sh But maybe you were missing that? This job runs as a cronjob and keeps track of your version, and also urges you to update. Ifyou also enabled smtp email (https://github.com/nextcloud/vm/blob/master/addons/smtp-mail.sh) you would have gotten an email telling you the same thing as the Nextcloud GUI did.
3. “but it seems that the update was stuck due to dependencies. In fact, despite updating Nextcloud, I was stuck on an old version of Ubuntu (I thought the Nextcloud VM would be keeping me up to date here).”: A few things here… Yes, it was stuck due to dependecies, that’s a feature. Or would you rather want that the update would break your Nextcloud (since your PHP version wasn’t supported it would go bananas on your setup, essentially breaking it into small pieces). For me, I’d prefer to not upgrade. Also, if you do upgrade with an oild PHP version you end up with this: https://github.com/nextcloud/vm/blob/master/nextcloud_update.sh#L930 telling you that you need to upgrade PHP. You can then choose to get support, or try for yourself. And last but not least, there are no such things as a “magic” OS upgrade between major OS versions. It has to be done manually. You can choose to hire us, or you can do it on your own.
4. “Hansson IT is more out to make money than to actually solve people’s problems”: We’ve been with ownCloud since 2013, and Nextcloud since day 1. We are experts, and expertise help costs money. We are effective, and fast. You pay us to do the work properly and the best possible way. You option is to spend days on trying on your own, but maybe the expression “time is money” doesn’t apply to you? Once again, it’s your choice, and you don’t need to bash about it (no pun intended). We do what we do because we want more people to use Nextcloud, and to be free from Google and “the big players”, but we also don’t work for free. So no, we don’t do it for the money. personally I have two jobs, just to pay the bills.
5. “He is charging €60 per 30 minutes”: Yeah, as a teacher you don’t make that much, so I can understand that it seems much to you. A normal hourly rate for a person like me in Sweden is around €200 – so we’re actually cheap. I guess this is about own reference, and our target group is not B2C.
6. “it shows that there are unlimited downloads.”: We’ve already been through this… 😉 You forgot to mention that the link expired after 10 days: https://imgur.com/a/rhLuUem So you have unlimited downloads for a limited period of time. I think this is the fourth time I’m telling you the same thing. Also, we release new versions all the time, and the reason for the link being valid for “only” 10 days is that you don’t buy a lifetime subscription to all coming versions, you buy the specific version at the specific time you download it. A lifetime subscription would mean a monthly cost, you paid once, for one version – this is also something you knew before writing this post.
7. “…works for something known as Redpill Linpro”. It’s a million dollar company, or maybe more. They have noting to do with this – but just for the sake of it; they are super successful in bringing open source to large companies in Scandinavia. Not to monetize, but to make the world a better place with software that doesn’t lock you in a corner (I’m looking at you Microsoft).
8. “So this brings us to the problem of why people don’t adopt open source projects.”: OK, so you have toe choices: 1: Pay 10000 dollars in licensing to a company that owns the product, and get nothing for it in return except the software. 2: Pay the same amount, but get support, a better software, more secure, and experts that actually wants to help you. I’d choose #2. How do you think Nextcloud make money, do they work for free?
9. “though that’s up for dispute.”: Yes it is, you have actually no idea. Hint: we chose Nextcloud because we felt it was the better choice: https://www.techandme.se/we-migrated-to-nextcloud-10-0-1/ We never got any money at all from Nextcloud, just FYI.
10.”though I had some issues with breaking changes and data loss when I used it”: And voila, there you have it. The VM is a better choice, and to me more thought out than the rest. I’m proud that the AIO came to life much because of the VM (inspiration). We inspired many many people and companies to change to something better like Nextcloud, and all our 5000+ customers agree. We charge for our services like any company would, but it’s not because we like money, but because we like Nextcloud. We make it possible for people like yourself to run Nextcloud in a vvery easy way – and we’ve been doing so since start. Our intention was never to grow,or to even start a company, but there were such an interest for our products and service that we were kind od forced to. With that said, we charge what we do based on the knowledge that we bring. You are free to do it own your own, or hire someone else, but it you want it to be done right, then you should hire us.
11: “When a developer is only out to enrich themselves”. That’s your opinion, and you got it all wrong. Posting what you just did however will make the noob scared, and choose to stay in the trap though. Shame on you. 😉
Final words:
1. You made a mistake (a) deleted your download b) tried upgrading PHP on your own, but failed c) did not understand that the word “Expired” actually not meant “Unlimited” d) the list can go on
2. You contacted us
3. We gave you an option to fix it (help you upgrade PHP, or get a new VM since you lost the old one)
4. You didn’t like that option
5. Now you blame us, and everyone else because you’re angry.
6. That’s not fair.
Just to be clear for all point #3, the options were either to a) Pay for Service or B) pay for a VM.
…or C) do it on your own.
And I don’t see anything wrong in asking for money for giving you a service which in fact would solve your problem. If your car breaks down, you go to the workshop, right? Well if you’re not a mechanic and can fix it on your own.